What is the situation in Mariupol now? What are the prospects for unblocking the city? And can the issue of Mariupol be resolved without supplying Ukraine with Western weapons?
The situation in Mariupol is not improving. Our military is blocked, there are many wounded. There are people killed, unfortunately. Humanitarian crisis: lack of food, water, no medicine.
However, the guys are heroically defending. We are grateful to them for that. One gratitude is not enough, so certain plans are being developed and negotiations (are ongoing – LB.ua). To be honest, there is no trust in the russian negotiators on Mariupol. We agreed that we would have a humanitarian corridor, with President Erdogan personally mediating. We agreed that the wounded, killed and civilians, first of all women and children, could be taken through Berdyansk. There are very young children there. At some point, russia abandoned the agreement, so it is not trusted.
We are in touch with the guys who are at the plant (“Azovstal” - LB.ua). We talk at different levels every day; we support them as much as we can. They know that they are performing one of the most powerful and important missions today. The enemy is so afraid of them that they sent six times more troops there than ours. And the machinery is dozens of times more.
There are several circles blocking Mariupol. Iryna Vereshchuk deals with the issue of humanitarian corridors in our direction.
Unfortunately, there is a big problem with those people who went the other way (in russia - LB.ua). They disappeared.PG
russian media are spreading information that we are not allowing civilians to leave for their side. It is not true. We do not control it. You know very well that we do not control a very large part of Mariupol. Nobody forbids anything there. In fact, people do not want to go there, but when there is a dead end… Ukrainian passports were taken away from them, but some certificates were issued instead. So many people disappeared. We do not know how many thousands of people have disappeared.
Both among civilians and the military?
Both among civilians and the military. Nobody knows the truth. No matter what anyone says, there are no statistics on those who have disappeared. For example, we had information from the Head of the Regional State Administration that 20,000 civilians died. But he is also not present there. We have some statistics from civilians, from the military, but it is definitely incorrect.
As for children, we think that 3-5 thousand children could disappear from this area.
What can help to deoccupy Mariupol today?
Powerful weapons that can be given to us by both the countries of the European Union and the United States of America. I think they're tired of my word "soon." I start the conversations with it and end them with it, because we need "now or soon". That's why weapons are number one.
Number two is a matter of negotiation. We understand that a ceasefire would be the first step - at least in Mariupol, at least to evacuate the wounded. But it depends on the desire of the russian federation. And it doesn't care. It does not matter if there are Easter holidays, or not. We know this for sure, we see their reaction.
I know that they offered our people to surrender. We know this from many of our channels in Mariupol. I think that they also have their own informants among the civilian population. Just as we are helped by the civilian population, who give us information about their numbers and what they do, so they have their agents. But we have our people there, our citizens, and they have agents there. There are some people who have been working on them for a long time. Therefore, they constantly throw out information, press psychologically to make people surrender. ОПУ
But they treat our military differently. There are soldiers they hate, and I don't believe they will save their lives. I think it could be Ilovaisk. But we need to ask our military.
Do you mean “Azov”?
Yes. They can answer whether they are ready to do it (surrender. - LB.ua). They are heroes. And if they decided to take this or that step, believe me, no one would forbid them. Nobody has the right to do that because they have already done a lot.
This is a difficult choice. I understand that they have wives and parents, children, they have contacts, they speak on the phone with them. I can't even imagine this pressure and this pain. It is a very difficult situation.
There is another option - to talk about it at the level of state leaders. I have conveyed my signals on any format to save the lives of our people, and on exchange formats, if that side is ready.
What about the weapons supply? Our western partners are talking about intensifying supplies. Are they enough?
I must say honestly that no country made the decision quickly. When the people inside the countries began to press, the leadership changed its attitude and gave us weapons or speeded up this process. But from the moment they say they have decided - by the government or the parliament - the issue of confirming the supply of weapons to Ukraine, to the moment when these weapons appear in the service of our army, it may take two or three weeks. That is a very long process.ото: АЗОВ
For example, in the Joint Forces Operation area or in Mariupol, our guys say: "We need help now." This is a matter of two or three days, and people (leaders of countries that are ready to supply weapons - LB.ua) say: "Everything is fine, we will give it to you in May." What do they expect? That we have to fight for months, that the war will go on for years? Some of them are probably counting on it. But for us, speeding up armaments is a very important moment.
The rhetoric of some states has definitely changed – it becomes warmer if you can use such a word for armaments. Warmed in our direction regarding the weapons supply. Some of them changed their attitude due to pressure from the people. Some of them are cold to us because of our public rhetoric, but they have unblocked the supply process (weapons - LB.ua). Even those who did not supply anything.
We get weapons. But we get not enough, I think. russia believes that we are getting a lot. This is also a good result. And I think that the United States, Britain, Poland, and a few other countries support us very well. But we don't have enough… We changed the attitude of Italy - this is a great victory. But I do not see the support we expect from some countries.о: ОПУ
The question of security guarantees. The negotiators announced a quite wide list of countries (which can act as guarantors of Ukrainian security. - LB.ua): UN Security Council countries, Poland, Turkey, Israel, China, and others. Which of these countries are ready to be guarantors - not just in the format of "we are for your peace, for security, we are with you", but to take on legally binding things? Who is really ready for this?
There is a difference between "ready" and "demonstrate", we have already learned to distinguish between these concepts. Because "ready", I think, is when a person has signed at least a preliminary memorandum. So far, we have no signatories with us on paper.
So today there is a demonstration of readiness from Boris Johnson and Britain, there is a demonstration from the United States, from Turkey, from Italy. I think it will be separate from the European Union because we talked about it with Ursula von der Leyen, and with Charles Michel, Poland, France, Germany.
The first round (already confirmed) will be five countries: France, Germany, Britain, the United States and us. Then the countries I said will join - Turkey, Poland.
As for all other UN Security Council countries, except for the "we support you" demonstration, I did not receive any confirmation of their readiness to go through certain points. But this process is alive, and I think we will get an answer from five or seven countries in a week - ten days. We will get some specifics. Because the issue of guarantees is very complex. What we want and what they want to give us are different things.
This is a question of the military component in the first place, right?
You know, I don't think we'll have a problem with weapons in principle. Of any kind. Even new. These are my feelings from the signals we had. There will be no issues with the sanctions policy, and I think that the issues you mentioned are waiting for us.
Will we now receive appropriate protection from the Western Allies - antidotes, everything we need from the chemical component? And when you said that the world should be ready for russia to use nuclear weapons, what kind of reaction of the world would you like to see? More weapons to Ukraine or something else, specific?
There was a bit of the wrong rhetoric. There was a long conversation, I don't know what was in the media from that conversation, but the question is that this or that country is constantly saying, "if they will use it, then we will do something…"
I said that this is a great provocation and we should not wait russia to use nuclear weapons. The world needs to prepare for this. Prepare in different ways, not just antidotes or bomb shelters. We need to talk to them (russia - LB.ua), sign the paper, clamp down on their economy so that they do not even have a thought about it (the use of nuclear weapons. - LB.ua). That's what I mean. They can use any weapon, I'm sure. Any weapon, and we can't trust them.
Therefore, our security guarantees must be written off, hoping that when we sign (peace agreement. - LB.ua), the next day they will attack us with weapons. Here's how I want to sign it. Well, let them go, but it is already signed in the way we can answer.
As for chemical weapons… We are working on this issue. But there are, again, two sub-answers to this question – «now» і «soon».
Many people say that negotiations with russia have reached a stalemate. I would like to hear from you what is happening in this direction, as well as the role of individual negotiators, I mean Roman Abramovich. What interests does he represent, neutral, not neutral, as he was involved in these negotiations, and was the issue of lifting sanctions of him for any mediating role really discussed?
I do not think that anyone on the russian side has a neutral position. I believe that the russian side, their diplomats or businessmen are defending the russian side and only their interests. Our interests cannot coincide. We may be interested in resolving certain issues by non-military means, ending the war.
I think that Abramovich is a part of this delegation, I don't know about everyone else, but according to the information I have, he represented the party that advocates a diplomatic solution to this issue – stopping the war.
And, again, no one can guarantee that this is true, that this is not a game. But I think it's better than when two sides are talking: one is to stop the war, the other is to completely destroy this nation. And if there are people on the other side who can still count on any negotiations, I say "still", because we have Bucha, Borodyanka, etc. and we haven’t been in Mariupol. There may be ten Borodyankas. We haven't been and we don't even fully understand (what's going on there. - LB.ua), no one understands. I asked the guys, although they left two or three weeks ago (Mariupol. - LB.ua), from the Associated Press… РБК
More than three weeks.
Yes. They didn't see everything, but emotionally they told me they couldn't even explain how shocked they were. So what's there now?
If there are such people on their part (russia. - LB.ua), I think it's their right, but if we continue negotiations, the presence of the economy part there among the military component, among diplomats, is not bad.
As for negotiations and deblocking. The stronger we are, the better the outcome of these negotiations will be. The more Borodyankas we will have, the less chance that negotiations will be or will be held in fact. They make, I think, very big mistakes. The destruction of our guys in Mariupol, what they are doing now, can finally put an end to any format of negotiations. I think it's a big mistake if they really say they want to end the war.
It is a deadlock because we do not trade territories and our people. We understand that negotiations are needed to defend the state and end the war. But the price of these negotiations…
We constantly, at any moment of this war, offered a meeting of leaders. They want to meet when there are already final agreements on all points. Well, and what? With all respect to all negotiators, to all negotiation processes, they can't decide everything for me. It works like that for them, they have prepared everything completely, then the parties meet and sign.
This was the case in 2019 - we met, there was a piece of paper, some kind of declaration, there were agreements between the parties. Representatives of the parties arrived and said: “Look, we are not ready to sign these items (LB.ua), because they do not have certain wording. Both Germany and France told us: "How could it happen, there were representatives, and we agreed." Well, I told them my opinion: despite any representatives, I trust everyone, but please do not decide for me without me. Therefore, I believe that we need to prepare everything for us to meet. Yes, some things can be agreed upon, but in the end, I do not understand how it works. The same is true when it comes to security guarantees.
How can we, without security guarantors who will tell us exactly what they will give us, agree with the russian federation that we will have such guarantors? Until they confirm to us what they will give us, how can we finally negotiate with russia? I do not understand this. It is very important for me to have an understanding before the meeting with russia what they (the guarantors - LB.ua) will give us. This is very influential. Is this really a security guarantee or an illustration? And if this is an illustration, then we need to talk to the russian federation in a completely different way. Then it's about bilateral relations.
If there are no specific security guarantees, it will be helpful. This will be about partner assistance, not security guarantees. Then we need to talk differently with russia.
I am in favor of meeting with russia as soon as possible. But I think that one meeting will not do. I don't think we can meet once and agree on everything. Because there are a lot of questions, and in some I do not see that they will go to our version or we will go to theirs.
And what is it?
I have many questions about Donbas. The question is: what do we want from this and what do our people want. There are people who hate us, and there are people who are citizens of Ukraine, and they want us to be there. The situation is different. Therefore, the question is very difficult. They want to constantly change the status of this part. And we want some kind of agreement so that those people who are there and who consider themselves Ukrainians know where they live.:Not on some island in the middle of the land, but that it is part of a country. And I think this is a part of Ukraine. Donetsk People’s Republic militants believe that they are a part of russia, russia does not consider them a part of russia, it believes that they are separate republics. They are afraid to be "separate republics" because they understand that at some point Ukraine may come to "separate republics". russia is afraid that Ukraine may come and wants a neutral status so that Ukraine will never come there. That is a lot of questions.
And the most important question: what do we all want to be there? If we just want to decide whose it is, then everything is clear to us. And this understanding is different. For eight years, russia has not considered this (Donbas - LB) ours. Russia does not consider Crimea ours. And we have completely different positions on the occupied territories.
I think we need to talk about this and find a model that may not give an answer to what to do with it today, but it will definitely allow us to become sober, at least to them. When the fighting is over, the war is over, you can think of diplomacy. And they want to resolve issues diplomatically when there is a war. This is very difficult.
That's why they want to take away some of our territory, to occupy more to have pressure. This is not about diplomacy. Meet for what? I do not understand why I will meet, if there is a desire to capture the entire (our - LB.ua) country? Well, let them capture, then why should they talk to me? About what?
I believe that everything should be broken into normal steps. Slow. Calm. There are security guarantees, there are NATO issues - let's talk. There is the Crimea issue - when there are no shots, let's go out and talk about it. This is, I think, a normal step. We will talk and we will have to decide. But after there are no shots and the machinery is taken away. And how can there be a neutral status first, and then the machinery? What status can we talk about, if there is machinery, which of the guarantors will sign it? What safety is it if your tanks are standing here? Nobody will sign it; we don't trust them. In general, we do not believe. And in this case as well.
I would like to clarify the status of the document that the delegations are working on. Are there security guarantees under the peace treaty? How does russia classify this document?
russia classifies this as they would like to have one agreement that addresses all issues. In one contract. But everyone doesn’t see themselves at the same table with the russian federation.
Who can't see?
For countries, security guarantees for Ukraine are one issue, and the agreements with russia are another. russia wants everything to be in one document, and people say, "Sorry, we saw what happened in Bucha."
Circumstances have changed. This is the reality. The format of future agreements is changing, the percentage of possibility of future agreements from such steps, from those rapes is changing. Everyone sees it. Less and less wants to have any agreements with russia. Less and less. At the same time, they want to have agreements with Ukraine
But what document will be the result of this war? From our side? Will it be a peace treaty and a guarantee of security? Or two in one? How do you see it?
I think that the further, the more difficult, but I think it can be two different documents. Security guarantees from countries that are ready for these security guarantees. And a separate document with russia. It may be so.
And in this document, we want to provide for reparations as well, if that happens?
The main thing is to come to it. I do not know in which document it will be provided. Honestly - I do not know. I am not ready to answer.
You signed a law yesterday that allows dismissing members of the supervisory boards of state-owned companies and banks at the request of management within 48 hours. This is a law primarily against foreign members who are unable to travel to Ukraine due to the war. Why did you sign this law, because many experts say that it puts an end to corporate governance reform? And we will have to rebuild the economy after the war. And the second question - you offered russia to exchange Medvedchuk: what is the current exchange rate for Medvedchuk?
We are ready to exchange Medvedchuk. Honestly. To exchange him for our military. What russia will offer. And it seems to me that we have transmitted these signals publicly or not very publicly. If they are interested, they will react.
Regarding the law. The most important issue is that no one wants any reforms, no one wants to finish. And there is no thought and time for it. Now it is definitely not up to any reforms or re-reforms, or the stop of any reforms, or the continuation of reforms. I'm definitely not up to it now. There are questions. And there are two of them.
The first question: minus 7bln euros of our economy per month - it's wages, benefits, pensions, social support. We now have a budget deficit of 7bln euros. It’s a difficult situation, to be honest. Everyone knows these numbers. By the way, we will be able to see at the end of the month how certain partners support us. These figures are known to the European Union, the United States, Britain, our people and so on. I think we will get out of this situation.
But the task was set, it was said: those who do not work, but can, it is not suitable. This cannot be the case now. But our people must be provided with money – an occupation situation, not an occupation, a temporary fleeing. There will be a lot of help. But all institutions, as they should work, must work. And if they don't work, and the decision is made by the head or the supervisory board, then there is a format to change any person in the management.
I believe that during martial law, any leadership of any authority, everything related to the payment of money – the banking system and any company, and there (in the signed law. - LB.ua), by the way, the issue is not related to foreigners, the issue is of any person on the supervisory board. We don't need to replace them just like that. For what? I was told about PrivatBank. But this does not apply to PrivatBank, because it was the first to pay dividends, first of all, it helped, gave money to the budget, there are no questions for them. I don't even know where they work - online or offline.: ОПУ
But if they (the state-owned enterprises - LB.ua) do not work properly because they went somewhere - to some islands, to Poland or Slovakia - because it is a corporate ethic, because we have a war, sorry, it is not appropriate. The prime minister can then dismiss any of these people. That's why this law is about. If the institution works and there are no questions, then there are no questions. But to just take the money, 300 thousand hryvnias now (it's about the salaries of members of the supervisory boards of state enterprises. - LB.ua), well, sorry…
So, this is not a law on PrivatBank, this is a law on savings?
This is definitely not a law about PrivatBank. All institutions must work, especially when the institution is not involved in the fact that people make some components, shells and you can solve problems, you cannot say, sorry it is a war, I did not come, I could not. It can’t be so. Especially in the banking system, energy system. It can’t be that way; we gathered people.
Now it’s the government. We would like the whole government to come, but it is dangerous, it has been divided in some cities, the Prime Minister will tell you if he wants. From the first day, we did it on purpose, if there is an occupation here, it was necessary that the leadership of the country was in another place, otherwise there would be a problem. Therefore (the government. - LB.ua) was divided. We did everything very quickly, transportation of money, etc., I will not talk about all the details.
The country has been working since day one, but we lost several businesses thanks to people who just left. Someone was found in Zakarpattia, someone was found abroad.
Therefore they (the deputies. - LB.ua) passed the law. I did not ask to adopt this law, but to resolve this issue, they just found such a step. I asked them to solve this on the third day of the war, because we all understood perfectly well that we would have a problem, we had to pay money. We have a state-owned enterprise, where (works. - LB.ua) 1,000 people. And the supervisory board, where three or four people (are absent. - LB.ua) and there is no quorum. Therefore, they cannot resolve the issue of transporting the company from the dangerous area. So, I asked: make sure that in a state of war such issues can be resolved in one call. That's all.
You said we have minus 7 bln a month. U.S. officials predict the war could be a year or even years. What is the strength of the Ukrainian economy, and do we have a plan?
7 bln is because it is really such a difficult month for us. I believe that if people return and work, the economic situation will be better.
The first month I told you was minus 7 bln. It's a complicated story, because we needed full imports, all humanities. We did not pay attention to how it is delivered; you know, we were not interested in any queues at customs. We were interested in the very rapid filling of food and medicine, the filling of all cities that may be occupied tomorrow. Because if they occupy the city, everything should already be there. And so, neither customs nor tax, no one worked properly, and it is clear why.
And what business can be? Everyone shut everything.
Now there is financial assistance, there are several programs with the IMF, we are working on this assistance, but nevertheless, we must understand that if the war continues - it will exhaust us.
But we expect certain grants, certain loans…
Yes, there are grants, there is help, there are several different programs. Now there will be a big financial meeting for them…
It seems that they are also afraid to give money here, i.e., they give more money to support refugees from Ukraine. But while the war is going on, it's hard to talk about any help.
I don't think that's very fair, that's what's happening. Some countries allocate money to refugees, although I have personally warned that if money is allocated to our people, they must enter our country. And our country must supply people who are in the state or refugees. And it’s fair. And to collect money for us in the world, and then this money does not come here, but goes to those countries that provide our citizens with help, well, it's…
It is even worse, because the money does not go to the countries where the refugees went, but to UN and Red Cross programs. And we saw how they help now ...
Yes. Therefore, this is also a big question, because they collected 10 bln (dollars - LB.ua).
People in the occupied cities - Kherson, Berdyansk, Melitopol - are asking for advice on how to behave. What should a teacher do in occupied Kherson? There are also issues of budget payments: budget payments have stopped, it is clear that they are very difficult and dangerous, and we have seen this with Melitopol, but people have questions.
There is a very detailed answer to all this. Yesterday we had a government meeting. Both Fedorov and Shmyhal have to show the transfer of this money. Because people don't see, don't understand, nobody told them.
I mean, the person is in the occupied part. He/She receives money on the card. There are already people who make money on it - take a card, go, withdraw money and take 10% for it. They are small "workers". Therefore they (the government. - LB.ua) will show transport of everything. As a person there (in the occupied territory. - LB.ua) receives money, if he/she leaves, she will be met immediately with help, both financial and for employment, when and where he/she goes. All this is designed. They have to present it all. I think that all this will be shown on Monday-Tuesday.
Next, where he/she can work, what school he/she can work in, how he/she will get money separately for the apartment because he/she is temporarily out of her territory. There are answers to all this. I want them to report all this in great detail. There will also be these answers to the question of how to work and live in the occupied territories.
So that people are not accused of collaborationism, they worry about it.
No. They are not collaborators. I understand what difficulties can be, for example, there’s a mathematics teacher, they come to her and say: you taught children in Ukrainian, and now teach mathematics in russian. I believe that the main thing for our people is to survive there, the main thing is to be there, to remember that they are all citizens of our state and we will definitely liberate one or another occupied city. I think this is the most important thing.
How do you feel about the return of Ukrainians from abroad and, in particular, Kyiv citizens to Kyiv? Isn't it premature, because the capital's military administration says they should not? But people still go and traffic jams in Kyiv are already at the entrance.
Here no one will give you the exact answer. Why? Can the russians return? They can. But does the city need to work? One hundred percent. I think that 7 bln is, I'm sorry, I'm very pragmatic, but 7 bln is nothing for our country. Basically nothing. If people will work, we don't need to be humiliated and ask for money. This requires the country to work and live.
And, despite the war, you need to get used to the idea that you should not wait for the moment when there will be no shots. It can be different. We all want that, but it can be different. That's why we need to work.
And if you work, you need to spend money, I mean, the economy has to start. Without it, by the way, there will be no money for our army. And this is the main thing. Our military men have high salaries. And where to get this money? The economy must work. One month they will help us, two of some partners, it will not be forever. So, we need to work, this is the answer to return.
Regarding relations… There is a photo where Zaluzhnyy, you, Andriy Yermak, are near the President's Office. People write that there was a conflict, and someone wants to quarrel with you. Who wants to quarrel with you?
We are fine, thank God. Everyone who has been here since day one.
It is a very significant photo.
No, the photo wasn’t significant. We were waiting for the British delegation: I went to meet with Johnson, Yermak went to meet with his security adviser, and Zaluzhnyy went to meet with their people from the Ministry of Defense. The three of us were just near the "chimeras", the photo was just random. It was at that moment. The photo was accidental, it was signed not by chance.
Maybe you will tell us what was the point?
There is full understanding inside, between us. At the beginning of the war, on the first day, I met with everyone as much as possible, said that the war is waiting for us, it will be difficult. We assessed the situation and understood what would happen to Kyiv. I said that a lot depends on those who stay and do not leave Kyiv. I said: if none of you run away, if you tell your offices and the people who support you, we will change the relationship between us, forget everything we had, all the misunderstandings.
Honestly, if we are very militant and persevere, we will win, we will forget everything that happened, right and wrong, everything in general. And I suggested to everyone that while I am the President, I will offer everyone a place in one united team. Everyone took it positively, and it's very true, for the first two weeks while we were fighting, I didn't hear a word from anyone about where they were all. And then (the stories about. - LB.ua) began "Zaluzhnyy-Yermak conflict", "Zelenskyy's conflict with someone". Meaning that, they returned to their weapons, pre-war weapons. And that's why I say that these names should not be mentioned. I think they put a cross on my proposal, that's all.